SOOOO, podcasts. Relevance? I guess it is controversial that I am not a fan of them, but trust me, I wish I was! Convince me.
2 years, 2 months ago.
53 comments so far
It's funny cuz THAT comment is a problem too. Here's why. You have three main types of content. Text, audio, and video, right? I'm willing to bet that you have different uses of relevancy for each of those. Not absolutes, but different.
This has been an aching issue for me for so long. I have five or so different podcasty threads I would love to start, pages in my journal devoted to topics, yet I haven't gone there. Why? Because I don't spend time listening to the medium myself and I don't see that changing.
Totally agree with your comment Eric, but here's the deal: I listen to radio A LOT, and talk radio, too. One aspect is that my iPod to car stereo mojo is a pain in the ass, another being that I only sync my iPod once every couple of weeks. So keeping the latest pcast would be difficult.
Do you find yourself listening to music or other audio forms of content (not podcasts, but in general)... We live in more or less the same area and have things like Live 105, great dance mixes at 5pm and KFOG. I'm addicted to XM and I burn quite a bit of CDs. Once in a while I listen to podcasts while driving, if I'm not listening to the Snowcrash audiobook for the 39829548th time.
Relevance of the media type is directly proportional to the ability of the author to use it. For example, I am a word-based person, so text formats work very well for me, but audio and video do not. Format evangelicals are doing a disservice to the entire creation process by discounting a delivery mechanism not directly in use by them.
Ha! You've mentioned audiobooks a couple of times. I can't go there either. I love them, but when the book is over, I can't recall any of it. My mind goes bats when I am suffused with audio and I don't recall what I have heard. I think that's why I gravitate to trancey rhythmic tunes, whether contemporary or old timey.
Heh no worries, and yeah, interestingly one of the big competitors to podcasting is the hardware interface of radio vs. non-radio. If my iPod isn't charged and I'm in a drive-thru where I can't get an XM signal, i will quickly flip around to FM...this has NOTHING to do with podcasting as a media type or whatnot. The one-button preset model vs. what you have to do with podcasts.
So it's interesting you DO listen to talk audio content but, it's phrased as something different 'podcast' wise.... (I hope people are hearing this, cuz I NEVER hear this conversation, only in a dark room when I'm in a corner while in the fetal position rocking back and forth)
Some considerations: Text and Video require more attention than audio, we HAVE to look at this convo. If it was audio you could clean your desk drawers out. So format > format arguments fail. Right tool for right job.
You think that with two VERY LOUD children, I can listen to podcasts in the evening after work? Hahahahahaha, hewwwwwooo reality check.
Talk content I listen to: Lehrer News Hour, Sassy Sports (hate sports but a queen who's line is "If they're playin' with balls, I'm all over it"... how can you go wrong?) California Report, Terry Gross on occassion. That's about it.
On a side note, Terry Gross: I think she is awesome, but if you are on her show, you can rest assured your edge is GONE. Your cultural relevance has made a downturn...
The funny thing is: I was just thinking of starting to use Utterz to start doing an audio version of the Idea Cafe I have been doing @ work. But is that podcasting?
Let me know if we get a #podcampJaiku here, i've maxed out group creations... we can post a thread to get topic ideas, then we create 1 thread per 'session' and drag it out over a week.
Does it really matter if it qualifies as "podcasting" by nomenclature or not? Don't get too caught up on slapping your content with a label defined indeterminately by someone else.
Heh @abiteofsanity i can make a 'podcast' and I can listen to it on two major video game consoles with a tad more work and barely any involvement with RSS, but yeah, good call. What the hell is that called? (And let's not have a 4 year debate about it, it's a rhetorical question). Just give it a brand name.
Oooh, oooh, me too! See this "podcast" environ that we've thrown ourselves into is somewhat stifling. Just this week I was thinking about doing a "show" and I found myself saying, "no that's too much work right now." What I really wanted to do was just share some music and artist insights that I'd just discovered. I could do that with text, with video, with a quick audio snippet via Utterz, et. al. Why does it have to be podcasting to get my ideas out? It doesn't!
I just roll my eyes at all the fake outage around defining the word "podcast", or who owns it, or who has a trademark on it. Why does this really matter? Take that energy and put it into your art and it would be so much more productive than shaking your fist at a disembodied talking head on the Internet.
Dude, btw: YouMail lets you embed your vmail which I think is a super rad idea. I keep waiting to have a vmail I can test it with, but I only have voice messages from bill collectors. Geez.
@ericrice the one thing I would say is that RSS is an important aspect of syndication which is something you prb want to do beyond just stuffing something in a console, no?
@richpalmer the thing I like about the notion of the podcast thang is that there is integration with other services when you follow the conventions and syndicate in a standard fashion, which is good. It's like paining on stretched canvas, it is limiting to a degree (vs using paper or vinyl or dog fur), but people know how to deal with it.
Sure, that's true, tastybit. So, if I define my "delivery point" as a catcher of all things I create, regardless of jumping point (Ustream, BlogTV, Kyte, Jaiku, Utterz, Twitter, etc.) could that not be the source of the feed to my end consumer/recipients? I agree so much that the RSS or similar mechanisms, whatever they end up being, are the deal-breakers to syndicating my full thoughtscape. Could I promote to my end user that all things "richpalmer" come from [insert perferred service]?
@richpalmer the problem is that different consuming apps require RSS in specific formats. At least I think that's an issue. For instance, if you pointed your iTunes at my FriendFeed, it wouldn't be grabbing my content and using it as a podcast.
Ah, I see. Well, such is iTunes then as the catcher. So it is the push-button issue. Not same from one device to next, so it complicates the usability of the consumer. Radio waves captured from the air are delivered same regardless of radio content catcher device. Not same with RSS. Hmmm... how to standardize?
I have little faith in standards, not when there is an advantage to walling it in... Brands on the other hand, people are aware of... Steven Colbert or Jon Stewart exist in a particular space, that extends to odd places like bookstores. We know what and how to access them, as well as CNN, Leo Laporte and others.
Adaptability is king, content and brand is really the crown prince. :)
OK, that I agree with on a level, but the reason why Colbert and Stewart have pimped brands is because they are freakin' marvels with their product, their adaptability just makes it easier for them to permeate their brand. So if I catch you correctly, you're saying that brand and product are one synergistic thang and that they are decorators to adaptability?
Google Reader is my endpoint. It includes a flash MP3 player anytime a blog post includes an audio file as an attachment.
This means that anyone can publish audio content anytime without worrying about "producing a show". It's not a podcast, it's just a blog.
This fits my concept of how I want to publish, and how I consume internet media. I listen to music audio, I hate talk audio. I read a LOT faster than I can listen to jibber jabber. Publish text most of the time, attach music if you have some to share.
I have a few podcast subscriptions in iTunes, but they are far less interesting to me than websites that contain .zip files of complete CC licensed albums.
So, I guess I'm just agreeing with @tastybit's original comment in that I just don't see the relevance of "podcasting". It's just an RSS attachment, so what? Google Reader makes pretty short work of mixed content. It "just works".
Podcasting is just auto delivery of media -files-, whether they are audio or video. Content is irrelevant. My old podcast was talk, my current is music only.
I think that distinction has to be made because 'podcasitng' is such a generic term.
When it comes to that content type, some people don't like audio, they'd rather watch something.. HOW they get it is kinda irrelevant, which is the point I'm trying to make.
Where 'podcasting' became a movement was that it was a distribution technology that was very easy for folks to get involved in producing. What ended up happening is that it became a massive landscape of 3420347987 shows of the same thing. (We need more tech shows, right?)
Even big media I think struggles. ESPN video podcasts have criticism since its not 'the whole thing', which I find painfully funny. Because all the hyperbole about a revolution and then THAT happens, it's comedy gold.
So in a manner of speaking it IS relevant if you have that certain level of advancement, but keep in mind, Google Reader is a step or two down the line. "Discovery" has already happened at that stage. The initial sell happened, and that's something that gets muddied by people trying to evangelize a medium vs. technology vs. brand vs. content. They all collide and fall to pieces of which consumers are too advanced or too novice.
Noise and fury. It's nothing, seriously. "Discovery" happens without thinking about it. I'm reading blogs in my reader. One I'm subscribed to links to another I'm not subscribed to. I like this new one. I hit the "Subscribe" bookmarklet. End of story.
Oh but i was going to do podcasts of the Denver sound right, Slim Cessna, Munly 16hp. The issue is, you gotta bring the message to the people. Why are tech shows and geeky freak shows the most common ones out there? Because no one else is listening? I think that is probably a big factor.
With regard to that initial sell, it's all about disruptive experiences. I think your Xbox pcast may help to do it. It would be awesome if someone could convince Apple or ABC to bundle Lost in iTMS with a podcast channel akin to a Jaiku channel... anyone can subscribe, anyone can create content. Until you have that level of feature penetration, it doesn't matter how badass your brand is with your current set of loyalists. It won't break through.
@tastybit if you want to market your "Denver sound" feed, you do so the way you market any other kind of content. The word "podcast" doesn't enter into it. I just don't get what's mysterious about this non-issue?
I actually thing that if you want to reach non-geeks, the term "podcast" is detrimental. It does nothing to assist users in accessing your media. The word "download" is going to be a hell of a lot more effective.
@jasonw22 I think there is a challenge in trying to get people to adopt new patterns of usage. If you have continually refreshing content that you want people to revisit regularly, you have a lot of touchpoints and persuading to do if they are not natively engaging in activity that brings that content to them (e.g., if they aren't subscribers to your content).
I think it's overly optimistic to believe that any approach to the term "podcasting" is going to adjust non-geek usage behavior in a way that encourages people previously unlikely to hit "subscribe" to start doing so. If you want to reach a non-geek audience with continually refreshing content you need to be willing to put the work into the touchpoints and persuasion. I'm extremely skeptical that the NPR podcasts represent a significant percentage of NPR listeners. Numbers please.
Frankly, if your content isn't engaging, no technology is going to help. Even on Tivo (to use the example of a similar technology popular with non-geeks), if you're bored with it, you're aren't going to watch it, regardless of the fact that your set top box happened to record it.
@jasonw22 it is not about the quality or the "engagingness" of the content. It's about usage patterns. My dad watches channels X,Y and Z. His vectors for new concepts are 1, 2, 3. You have to hit him through vector @ channel.
This lack of "vectors for new concepts" is why I'm excited for the day when the net-generation grows up and starts consuming grown-up content. However, I'm also a little scared that people seem to have stopped growing up altogether to a certain degree. I digress.
53 comments so far
It's funny cuz THAT comment is a problem too. Here's why. You have three main types of content. Text, audio, and video, right? I'm willing to bet that you have different uses of relevancy for each of those. Not absolutes, but different.
2 years, 2 months ago by ericrice
This has been an aching issue for me for so long. I have five or so different podcasty threads I would love to start, pages in my journal devoted to topics, yet I haven't gone there. Why? Because I don't spend time listening to the medium myself and I don't see that changing.
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
I dub this thread 'Relevancy of Media Types: Which format and why?" hehe
2 years, 2 months ago by ericrice
Totally agree with your comment Eric, but here's the deal: I listen to radio A LOT, and talk radio, too. One aspect is that my iPod to car stereo mojo is a pain in the ass, another being that I only sync my iPod once every couple of weeks. So keeping the latest pcast would be difficult.
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
Sorry started the thread with a crapster comment. ;-)
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
Do you find yourself listening to music or other audio forms of content (not podcasts, but in general)... We live in more or less the same area and have things like Live 105, great dance mixes at 5pm and KFOG. I'm addicted to XM and I burn quite a bit of CDs. Once in a while I listen to podcasts while driving, if I'm not listening to the Snowcrash audiobook for the 39829548th time.
2 years, 2 months ago by ericrice
Kinda wish Jaiku supported subthreads.
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
Relevance of the media type is directly proportional to the ability of the author to use it. For example, I am a word-based person, so text formats work very well for me, but audio and video do not. Format evangelicals are doing a disservice to the entire creation process by discounting a delivery mechanism not directly in use by them.
2 years, 2 months ago by abiteofsanity
Ha! You've mentioned audiobooks a couple of times. I can't go there either. I love them, but when the book is over, I can't recall any of it. My mind goes bats when I am suffused with audio and I don't recall what I have heard. I think that's why I gravitate to trancey rhythmic tunes, whether contemporary or old timey.
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
Heh no worries, and yeah, interestingly one of the big competitors to podcasting is the hardware interface of radio vs. non-radio. If my iPod isn't charged and I'm in a drive-thru where I can't get an XM signal, i will quickly flip around to FM...this has NOTHING to do with podcasting as a media type or whatnot. The one-button preset model vs. what you have to do with podcasts.
So it's interesting you DO listen to talk audio content but, it's phrased as something different 'podcast' wise.... (I hope people are hearing this, cuz I NEVER hear this conversation, only in a dark room when I'm in a corner while in the fetal position rocking back and forth)
2 years, 2 months ago by ericrice
Some considerations: Text and Video require more attention than audio, we HAVE to look at this convo. If it was audio you could clean your desk drawers out. So format > format arguments fail. Right tool for right job.
You think that with two VERY LOUD children, I can listen to podcasts in the evening after work? Hahahahahaha, hewwwwwooo reality check.
2 years, 2 months ago by ericrice
Talk content I listen to: Lehrer News Hour, Sassy Sports (hate sports but a queen who's line is "If they're playin' with balls, I'm all over it"... how can you go wrong?) California Report, Terry Gross on occassion. That's about it.
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
Yeah, same here with 3.
On a side note, Terry Gross: I think she is awesome, but if you are on her show, you can rest assured your edge is GONE. Your cultural relevance has made a downturn...
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
The funny thing is: I was just thinking of starting to use Utterz to start doing an audio version of the Idea Cafe I have been doing @ work. But is that podcasting?
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
Let me know if we get a #podcampJaiku here, i've maxed out group creations... we can post a thread to get topic ideas, then we create 1 thread per 'session' and drag it out over a week.
2 years, 2 months ago by ericrice
Does it really matter if it qualifies as "podcasting" by nomenclature or not? Don't get too caught up on slapping your content with a label defined indeterminately by someone else.
2 years, 2 months ago by abiteofsanity
Heh @abiteofsanity i can make a 'podcast' and I can listen to it on two major video game consoles with a tad more work and barely any involvement with RSS, but yeah, good call. What the hell is that called? (And let's not have a 4 year debate about it, it's a rhetorical question). Just give it a brand name.
2 years, 2 months ago by ericrice
Heh, it's probably not podcasting, but one thing I would call it. "Idea Cafe". ;)
2 years, 2 months ago by ericrice
consolecasting!
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
Oooh, oooh, me too! See this "podcast" environ that we've thrown ourselves into is somewhat stifling. Just this week I was thinking about doing a "show" and I found myself saying, "no that's too much work right now." What I really wanted to do was just share some music and artist insights that I'd just discovered. I could do that with text, with video, with a quick audio snippet via Utterz, et. al. Why does it have to be podcasting to get my ideas out? It doesn't!
2 years, 2 months ago by richpalmer
Are you being serious about #podcampJaiku?
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
I just roll my eyes at all the fake outage around defining the word "podcast", or who owns it, or who has a trademark on it. Why does this really matter? Take that energy and put it into your art and it would be so much more productive than shaking your fist at a disembodied talking head on the Internet.
2 years, 2 months ago by abiteofsanity
Dude, btw: YouMail lets you embed your vmail which I think is a super rad idea. I keep waiting to have a vmail I can test it with, but I only have voice messages from bill collectors. Geez.
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
Okay, heh http://jaiku.com/channel/PodcampJaiku for future reference
2 years, 2 months ago by ericrice
@ericrice the one thing I would say is that RSS is an important aspect of syndication which is something you prb want to do beyond just stuffing something in a console, no?
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
@richpalmer the thing I like about the notion of the podcast thang is that there is integration with other services when you follow the conventions and syndicate in a standard fashion, which is good. It's like paining on stretched canvas, it is limiting to a degree (vs using paper or vinyl or dog fur), but people know how to deal with it.
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
*painting
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
panting
2 years, 2 months ago by ericrice
Sure, that's true, tastybit. So, if I define my "delivery point" as a catcher of all things I create, regardless of jumping point (Ustream, BlogTV, Kyte, Jaiku, Utterz, Twitter, etc.) could that not be the source of the feed to my end consumer/recipients? I agree so much that the RSS or similar mechanisms, whatever they end up being, are the deal-breakers to syndicating my full thoughtscape. Could I promote to my end user that all things "richpalmer" come from [insert perferred service]?
2 years, 2 months ago by richpalmer
@richpalmer the problem is that different consuming apps require RSS in specific formats. At least I think that's an issue. For instance, if you pointed your iTunes at my FriendFeed, it wouldn't be grabbing my content and using it as a podcast.
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
Ah, I see. Well, such is iTunes then as the catcher. So it is the push-button issue. Not same from one device to next, so it complicates the usability of the consumer. Radio waves captured from the air are delivered same regardless of radio content catcher device. Not same with RSS. Hmmm... how to standardize?
2 years, 2 months ago by richpalmer
Standardize your brand. It can adapt to any medium.
2 years, 2 months ago by ericrice
Sorry @ericrice, not buying that platitude. Standardizing the brand is not enough, product accessibility and "presence" is as key.
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
I have little faith in standards, not when there is an advantage to walling it in... Brands on the other hand, people are aware of... Steven Colbert or Jon Stewart exist in a particular space, that extends to odd places like bookstores. We know what and how to access them, as well as CNN, Leo Laporte and others.
Adaptability is king, content and brand is really the crown prince. :)
2 years, 2 months ago by ericrice
OK, that I agree with on a level, but the reason why Colbert and Stewart have pimped brands is because they are freakin' marvels with their product, their adaptability just makes it easier for them to permeate their brand. So if I catch you correctly, you're saying that brand and product are one synergistic thang and that they are decorators to adaptability?
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
Google Reader is my endpoint. It includes a flash MP3 player anytime a blog post includes an audio file as an attachment.
This means that anyone can publish audio content anytime without worrying about "producing a show". It's not a podcast, it's just a blog.
This fits my concept of how I want to publish, and how I consume internet media. I listen to music audio, I hate talk audio. I read a LOT faster than I can listen to jibber jabber. Publish text most of the time, attach music if you have some to share.
I have a few podcast subscriptions in iTunes, but they are far less interesting to me than websites that contain .zip files of complete CC licensed albums.
So, I guess I'm just agreeing with @tastybit's original comment in that I just don't see the relevance of "podcasting". It's just an RSS attachment, so what? Google Reader makes pretty short work of mixed content. It "just works".
2 years, 2 months ago by jasonw22
Podcasting is just auto delivery of media -files-, whether they are audio or video. Content is irrelevant. My old podcast was talk, my current is music only.
I think that distinction has to be made because 'podcasitng' is such a generic term.
When it comes to that content type, some people don't like audio, they'd rather watch something.. HOW they get it is kinda irrelevant, which is the point I'm trying to make.
Where 'podcasting' became a movement was that it was a distribution technology that was very easy for folks to get involved in producing. What ended up happening is that it became a massive landscape of 3420347987 shows of the same thing. (We need more tech shows, right?)
Even big media I think struggles. ESPN video podcasts have criticism since its not 'the whole thing', which I find painfully funny. Because all the hyperbole about a revolution and then THAT happens, it's comedy gold.
So in a manner of speaking it IS relevant if you have that certain level of advancement, but keep in mind, Google Reader is a step or two down the line. "Discovery" has already happened at that stage. The initial sell happened, and that's something that gets muddied by people trying to evangelize a medium vs. technology vs. brand vs. content. They all collide and fall to pieces of which consumers are too advanced or too novice.
Oh to be preloaded <3
2 years, 2 months ago by ericrice
Noise and fury. It's nothing, seriously. "Discovery" happens without thinking about it. I'm reading blogs in my reader. One I'm subscribed to links to another I'm not subscribed to. I like this new one. I hit the "Subscribe" bookmarklet. End of story.
2 years, 2 months ago by jasonw22
Oh but i was going to do podcasts of the Denver sound right, Slim Cessna, Munly 16hp. The issue is, you gotta bring the message to the people. Why are tech shows and geeky freak shows the most common ones out there? Because no one else is listening? I think that is probably a big factor.
With regard to that initial sell, it's all about disruptive experiences. I think your Xbox pcast may help to do it. It would be awesome if someone could convince Apple or ABC to bundle Lost in iTMS with a podcast channel akin to a Jaiku channel... anyone can subscribe, anyone can create content. Until you have that level of feature penetration, it doesn't matter how badass your brand is with your current set of loyalists. It won't break through.
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
@jasonw22 but dude, you are a total geek (like anyone contributing to this convo, myself included.)
Discovery will not pass beyond the walls of geekdom until it's on Terry Gross, when it loses cultural relevance and becomes staid.
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
@tastybit if you want to market your "Denver sound" feed, you do so the way you market any other kind of content. The word "podcast" doesn't enter into it. I just don't get what's mysterious about this non-issue?
2 years, 2 months ago by jasonw22
I actually thing that if you want to reach non-geeks, the term "podcast" is detrimental. It does nothing to assist users in accessing your media. The word "download" is going to be a hell of a lot more effective.
2 years, 2 months ago by jasonw22
@jasonw22 I think there is a challenge in trying to get people to adopt new patterns of usage. If you have continually refreshing content that you want people to revisit regularly, you have a lot of touchpoints and persuading to do if they are not natively engaging in activity that brings that content to them (e.g., if they aren't subscribers to your content).
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
@jasonw22 yeah asking a non-geek to listen to your "podcast" is like asking to get looked at funny.
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
I think it's overly optimistic to believe that any approach to the term "podcasting" is going to adjust non-geek usage behavior in a way that encourages people previously unlikely to hit "subscribe" to start doing so. If you want to reach a non-geek audience with continually refreshing content you need to be willing to put the work into the touchpoints and persuasion. I'm extremely skeptical that the NPR podcasts represent a significant percentage of NPR listeners. Numbers please.
2 years, 2 months ago by jasonw22
Frankly, if your content isn't engaging, no technology is going to help. Even on Tivo (to use the example of a similar technology popular with non-geeks), if you're bored with it, you're aren't going to watch it, regardless of the fact that your set top box happened to record it.
2 years, 2 months ago by jasonw22
@jasonw22 it is not about the quality or the "engagingness" of the content. It's about usage patterns. My dad watches channels X,Y and Z. His vectors for new concepts are 1, 2, 3. You have to hit him through vector @ channel.
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
@tastybit I totally agree with you. Get your content on X, Y and Z if you want your dad to see it. Period.
2 years, 2 months ago by jasonw22
However, your dad doesn't watch X, Y and Z 24/7. If he gets bored, he hits "off".
2 years, 2 months ago by jasonw22
Most people have ZERO "vectors for new concepts".
2 years, 2 months ago by jasonw22
Yes and Yes. Off? Missed. Except one of this channels is email. He's always open to a viral email.
2 years, 2 months ago by tastybit
This lack of "vectors for new concepts" is why I'm excited for the day when the net-generation grows up and starts consuming grown-up content. However, I'm also a little scared that people seem to have stopped growing up altogether to a certain degree. I digress.
2 years, 2 months ago by jasonw22
Email is under-appreciated.
2 years, 2 months ago by jasonw22